| aktin0s | hi |
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| amd | how long do the software patents last? |
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| slef | 21 years minimum by treaty IIRC |
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| slef | like all patents |
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| S3v3N | Question: Why UNIX is more expensiva than Linux if the´re the |
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| same ? |
| slef | Why did the intro say "Open Source"? Isn't the "Open Source" |
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| movement about copyright only? |
| slef | UK Patent Office likes patents because it has to generate |
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| revenue to cover its costs. I hear this is a problem in New Mexico and some |
| other US states. What is the situation in other places? |
| S3v3N | in the name are in the sevenehaus |
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| trulux | nas |
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| S3v3N | and you be there, and you striking my hai |
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| dElEtE | Pregunta: ¿No piensan que lo de EOLAS es algo positivo, ya |
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| que han enseñado a la sociedad lo ridiculo de las patentes de software? |
| slef | S3v3N: gimme some of those pills. |
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| casteller | hmmm, creo que en parte si que es positivo ya que ha hecho |
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| ponerse las pilas al W3C para pedir al gobierno USA que delimite mejor el |
| tema de la pantetabilidad |
| > please, any could send the questionof delete in English ? |
| bug | yes |
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| bug | I will |
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| fernand0 | delete is asking about the positive aspects of EOLAS |
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| showing to the people the stupid part of patents |
| guugmembe | no les molesta a ud los mensajes de gente que entra y sale? |
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| guugmembe | como quito eso? |
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| S3v3N | slef yes, i have got here a lot, come here! ( carry money ) |
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| dElEtE | sorry :-) |
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| kruger_ | si a mi si me molestan esos mensajes |
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| kruger_ | si se pueden quitar seria excelente |
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| > se pueden... es un comando de cada cliente de irc |
| guugmembe | kruger_: no se si los quita uno de su cliente o es el canal |
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| guugmembe | MJesus: en xchat cual es? |
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| Mondongo | en bitchx es /ignore #canal all -public |
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| horacio | click derecho sobre la pestaña del canal-> "Show join/part |
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| messages" en xchat |
| guugmembe | horacio: excelente |
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| slef | kial estas nur iberia? |
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| amd | so if i just "rewrite" the copyrighted source code (change the |
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| variable names and stuff like this..) the license doesn't apply anymore? |
| slef | the patent licence would |
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| amd | ok.. |
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| j_heald | amd: you would have to do a lot heavier rewriting than that, |
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| just to beat (C) |
| slef | but copyright licence wouldn't |
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| slef | depends on scale of change, aye |
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| billar | hi |
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| j_heald | there's quite a complex law test -- but basically they look |
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| at all the things in the source code that don't affect its overall function |
| -- if those show you "derived" your code from somebody's (C) material, they |
| can have you |
| bug | slef: -> #linux |
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| bug | james too :-) |
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| bug | I voice you slef |
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| amd | how much does it cost to get something patented? |
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| bug | 50 kE |
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| > more slowsly please, the spanish traslator with some delay |
| bug | for a communautary patent |
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| j_heald | can be about Euro 30,000 |
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| Mondongo | so, basically, it's a cabal between the guild of patents |
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| and the great software lords with tons of money? how can we oppose that? |
| amd | so this means that big companies with lots of $$$ have already |
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| won, if the software patents are allowed... |
| laurix | si la patente de un programa no se renueva a que tipo de |
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| licencia se acoge el programa? |
| jaw2 | if the program's patent expire, which is the program's license? |
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| j_heald | the program goes on being protected by copyright for |
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| lifetime+70 years |
| j_heald | the end of the patent means that after 20 years *you* are |
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| finally allowed to write your own program |
| Mondongo | Amazon has been patenting silly stuff for years. Why only |
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| now are we trying to do something? Is this a Europe vs. USA thing? :) |
| Voins | j_heald, lifetime of author or lifetime of copyright holder? |
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| what will be "lifetime" for programs copyrighted by MS? |
| j_heald | voins: author of the program |
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| shadowtl2 | 100 not lifetime |
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| j_heald | "make sure there's somebody young on the team" as one law |
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| book says |
| j_heald | life + 70 is EU standard |
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| shadowtl2 | life +70 years or 100 years for a company |
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| j_heald | mondongo: why only now |
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| j_heald | answer: because this is when the EU commission proposed this |
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| new directive |
| j_heald | only the commission is allowed to start a new EU law, so |
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| they control the timetable |
| j_heald | the UK has wanted a directive to allow swpat for over 10 |
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| years |
| j_heald | but in March 2002, the process finally began |
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| Mondongo | j_heald: so, it IS a Europe vs. USA thing! :-) (I'm from |
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| Argentina) |
| j_heald | well kind of -- there is a deeper issue |
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| j_heald | USA + EU got the TRIPS treaty agreed by the World Trade |
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| Organisation |
| j_heald | mostly to stop countries writing their own laws on IP |
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| j_heald | & to stop special exceptions for national companies |
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| amd | IP = intellectual property? |
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| j_heald | yes |
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| j_heald | TRIPS says "inventions in all technological fields must be |
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| patentable" |
| shadowtl2 | Question:Will the swpat be a plied retrospectively, so |
|---|
| that no M$ computers that use FAT will be effected, say? |
| j_heald | this was written in by the USA + the EU basically to force |
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| countries to allow drug patents |
| off) |
| j_heald | but now the USA says it means s/w must be patentable |
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| j_heald | The EU is scared the USA would start a trade war |
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| j_heald | but -interestingly- most of the member states are a lot less |
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| scared |
| Mondongo | and who's benefitting from this? (as my history teacher |
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| would say, whenever you don't understand, look out for the profit) |
| j_heald | But yes: the USA is pushing for it |
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| j_heald | 50% of european software patents held by US companies |
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| j_heald | question answered ? :-) |
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| Mondongo | j_heald: quite! ;-) |
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| Mondongo | thanks |
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| j_heald | it's good for *big* software companies, they can stop small |
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| companies competing |
| j_heald | stop linux |
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| j_heald | stop competition |
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| j_heald | keep their prices up |
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| Mondongo | patent everything, so no one can write a thing without |
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| infringing |
| j_heald | shadowtl2: MS already has 2 EU patents for FAT |
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| j_heald | -- although FSF think they could be challenged |
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| Mondongo | what can us south americans do? brace ourselves? |
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| Mondongo | (can "we" south americans ... my grammar, oy) |
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| #qc |
| shadowtl2 | How can you already get swpat and does that make my |
|---|
| computer illegal |
| (Ping timeout) |
| james_h | okay: the history here |
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| james_h | 1973 European Patent Convention |
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| james_h | says no patents on computer programs "as such" |
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| james_h | 1977 Original guidelines for EPO patent examiners |
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| james_h | very fierce against software patents |
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| james_h | 1985 "Vicom" decision |
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| james_h | computer program that does image processing is not a |
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| computer program "as such" |
| james_h | -- according to the EPO board of appeal |
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| james_h | 1986 new EPO guidelines |
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| james_h | since then some member states agreed quickly to change |
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| james_h | others didn't |
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| james_h | others, it never came to court |
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| james_h | so EPO granted the patents, but not clear which countries |
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| will uphold them |
| james_h | change never discussed by politicians |
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| james_h | ... until now |
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| james_h | so 30,000 of these patents exist |
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| james_h | this directive will either say: |
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| shadowtl2 | BCS said only swpat exists (quote from mid 1990s) |
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| shadowtl2 | BCS said only one swpat exists (quote from mid 1990s) |
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| james_h | the patents are okay, and you can have them on a much wider |
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| range of software |
| james_h | or the patents are not okay |
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| james_h | shadow: this is a big point |
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| Mondongo | so, it's all or nothing ... |
|---|
| timeout) |
| james_h | mon: more or less -- it's difficult to draw a differnt line |
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| that could work |
| james_h | shadow: uk govt says patents for 20 years -- what's the |
|---|
| problem ? |
| james_h | But most patents very recent |
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| james_h | & people only now starting to think about litigating them |
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| shadowtl2 | But FAT is over 21 years old |
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| Voins | shadowtl2, there's much younger variants of FAT |
|---|
| james_h | the patents are on the long name -> short name conversion, |
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| circa 1996 |
| shadowtl2 | Please can you tell me which versions are patented? |
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| #qc |
| james_h | vfat |
|---|
| james_h | in particular the use of a btree to look up the filename |
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| conversions |
| #qc (Leaving) |
| shadowtl2 | Is there key for the swpat EP votes list |
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| james_h | did you try the google box ? |
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| james_h | it's the only way I can ever find anything on the site ? |
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| james_h | http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/plen0309/vote/an |
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| alysis.html |
| james_h | oh sorry, you mean what each vote was about ? |
|---|
| shadowtl2 | What does the colour mean forinstance |
|---|
| bug | green should be allied :-) |
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| unimauro | Hi |
|---|
| unimauro | this channel is in spanish or english |
|---|
| james_h | en |
|---|
| unimauro | ... |
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| unimauro | Who do you know about software patents and ALCA? |
|---|
| james_h | shadow: Frahm is a Nordic Green Left MEP who voted pretty |
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| much our way; votes with Frahm are in Green, votes the other way are in red |
| james_h | what is acla ? |
|---|
| unimauro | ALCA = en español Tratado de Libre Comercio para las |
|---|
| Americas |
| james_h | FTAA in English I think -- Free Trade Area of the Americas ? |
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| unimauro | james_h, yeah |
|---|
| unimauro | NAFTA |
|---|
| (Leaving) |
| james_h | The USA has been pushing for a lot more Intellectual |
|---|
| Property protection -- but I think the talks last month mostly went against |
| them ? |
| james_h | I don;t know whether swpat was specifically raised -- maybe |
|---|
| someone can say? |
| unimauro | well in my country the software developers is down :( |
|---|
| unimauro | Nothing think about the future problem in this trade :/ |
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| http://www.undernet.org/webchat.php) |
| timeout) |
| off) |
| Windows: Reboot!) |
| off) |
| GuERo | Hola |
|---|
| (Aplicación Saliendo) |
| Leaving) |
| End of #qc buffer Mon Dec 15 22:04:22 2003 |
